ALCO C-420's #200-229 
lirr200MIneolaRobertBDunnet.jpg (125023 bytes)
LIRR #200 as delivered at Mineola eastbound passing under Mineola Blvd.1963 
Photo: Robert B. Dunnet Archive: John Scala


LIRR train #606 (right) has L-1 #213 and train #623 has L-1 #211 meet at W. Pulaski Rd., Huntington Station 
08/17/70 Photo: Richard F. Makse

The Long Island Rail Road's Workhorse 
by Rich Gorddard
C420_smoke_deflectors-L2alcastelli.jpg (46495 bytes)

C420_smoke_deflectors-L2alcastelli-2.jpg (40583 bytes)
LIRR #222 Farmingdale 08/31/85 
Photos: Al Castelli

C420-216CloseupTopLouvers1-18-66.jpg (50393 bytes)
LIRR #216 Close-up of long hood top louvers 01/18/1966
Archive: Dave Keller

L212-Long Island City.jpg (218292 bytes)
LIRR #212 LI City 
Photo: Steve Hoskins

C420-221-206-RunningAroundTrain-Montauk-7-1971.jpg (54174 bytes)
LIRR C420 pair #221 #206 Montauk "Run around Move" 07/1971
Trainman still wearing old gray uniform
Info/Photo: Dave Keller archive

 

 

 

 

#200-204 were delivered without the smoke deflectors (and with smaller fuel/water tanks). The deflectors were added by the LIRR on these units, and the rest were delivered with them. I'm not sure if they were the same design on the L1s & L2s. I've never seen detail shots of those on the L1s, but it would make sense as Alco used the same design. (The tanks were also modified by the LIRR to the larger capacity ones with the familiar bulge on these initial units.) Info: Al Castelli

The extra capacity was added to these engines as they were running out of water for the steam generators on Montauk runs. Info: John Scala

L203-Ronkonkoma.jpg (178090 bytes)
                                   LIRR #203 Ronkonkoma Photo: Steve Hoskins

"Diesels of the Sunrise Trail" Author : John Scala page 44.
"... #200 12/1963.....modified by Morris Park... #207 (built 2/1964) "...the 207 has the deflectors at the top of the long hood to keep smoke away from the cab.." Photo: 11/01/1967 John Scala text..."

Folks: Based on all the above:
1. Smoke deflectors 
2. Added by Morris Shops
3. Not a standard Alco option
4. Not employed by other railroads
5. Perhaps, didn't work that well, thus no further use by LIRR or any other railroad in USA
6. Due to LHF (long hood forward), a stop gap that perhaps failed... Steve Lynch

First thing, my understanding is that running the locomotives LHF was a company preference, not a safety decision. According to copies of documents from ALCO that I have, the short hood of the Century (Cxxx) and Road Switcher (RSx) series was touted as being equally protective in a head-end collision. I am not sure I completely buy into this, so it is possible that the LIRR did not either, but I was under the impression that the influx of steam-era guys in management and engine service influenced the decision to have the C420 set-up for LHF operation.

Second, I am 90% sure that the LIRR added the smoke deflectors. ALCO did not intend these to be used as commuter engines; the smoke kicking up at the start of a freight run was not a huge inconvenience, but when the engine would be revved up dozens of times from a dead stop on just one run on the LIRR, it became unbearable in the cab. To paraphrase what a former employee told me, the LIRR saw the deflectors as the quickest solution to the smoke problem. It wasn't a huge help at start-up because of the reasons Al states, but it was enough to lift a fair amount of smoke up and over the cab and make the situation manageable. 
Info: Kyle Mullins

Alco’s 200 though 221
were classified as L-1's by the MTA LIRR in 1968

In June of 1963, the American Locomotive Company, better known as ALCO, began to build the Century 420 locomotive in their assembly plant in Schenectady, New York. The C-420, as it was called, was very similar to the layout and designs of predecessor engines, such as the RS-I1, RS-32 and RS-36. However, the C-420 was of the new Century-styled, central air intake design. The long hood seemed noticeably longer when compared to other RS (Road Switcher) engines. This was because the various car body filters were replaced by a centralized air system intake near the cab. This allowed the famous ALCO radiator shutters to be replaced by a smaller fixed air intake at that same spot. 

These engines were built with 12 cylinder 251c prime movers, and came in two distinct models, with various options. The C-420 was available in both high and low nose short hoods. The reason for the high short hood was to provide space for a steam generator. Both the Long Island and Monongahela Railroads had the high nose option for steam generators. The Norfolk & Western ordered the high nose hood version as well; however, they were not equipped with a steam generator. Their reasoning was simply for crew safety. Some railroads, such as N&W and Southern, believed the high nose short hood gave the crews a safer buffer in case of a grade crossing accident or other mishap.

Orders for low nose C-420's included such railroads as the Union Pacific, Piedmont & Northern, Lehigh & Hudson River and Lehigh Valley. The low nose was used due to the fact that a steam generator was not necessary and would provide better visibility for the entire crew.

Of the 129 units that ALCO built, 127 were for domestic railroads. Two were built for Mexico.

In 1963, the Long Island Rail Road went shopping for new motive power. The C-420 was the railroad's choice. However, the LIRR decided to lease the engines from ALCO, rather than buy them. These units were numbered 200 -221.

When the units arrived on the property, they were painted gray and orange, more commonly referred to as the World's Fair paint scheme. When delivered, engines 200 through 203 had a 900 gallon fuel tank and an 1,100 gallon water tank. The Morris Park shop crews removed and replaced the tanks with 1,000 gallon fuel tanks and 1,900 gallon water tanks. Before 204 or 205 were delivered, the LIRR had ALCO remove the smaller tanks and replace them with the larger tanks. All subsequent engines were built with the larger tanks. It is also interesting to note that engines 210 through 220 were equipped with snow plows on the pilot of the long hood.

ALCO denoted the model of these engines as C-420, and was classified as AGP-20msc. What does this mean? AGP stood for ALCO General Purpose unit. The 20 after the dash meant 2,000 horsepower. Msc meant it was capable of being MU'd (used in multiple units), and had a steam generator with speed control; hence the classification. The MTA LIRR, however, re-classed them as L-l's in 1968.

The L-l's saw service in almost every aspect of LIRR operations. Passenger and freight trains alike were pulled by these engines. From crack passenger trains like The Cannonhall, working the Silver Streak to Smithtown, to working the Patchogue to Babylon Scoot, these engines fit the bill. From local freights and road jobs, to switching Kings Park, Central Islip and Pilgrim State Hospitals, the Centuries always seemed to come through.

In 1968, the LIRR needed additional motive power. Again, they went back to ALCO and this time purchased eight more C-420's. This order was placed by a different parent company; the MTA. With the LIRR no longer under control of the Pennsylvania Railroad, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, or MTA, purchased the new engines.

The MTA made their presence known when the engines showed up at Morris Park. Instead of the familiar gray and orange livery, the second order arrived in the New York State colors of blue and yellow. Not just regular blue and yellow, but pastel blue and yellow. I remember when I first saw them I hated those colors, but later I grew to like them. Not many people did like the colors, in particular railroad management. Eventually, the colors were subdued and the entire fleet of Alco’s were painted in this newer scheme.

Alco’s 222 though 229 were classified as L-2's. These engines had a 79:24 gear ratio, as compared with the 64: 19 gear ratio of the L-1’s. The reason the MTA chose a different gear ratio was because the LIRR was hoping to get other freight contracts that were to be exclusively handled by these engines. In particular the LIRR was a contender to haul trainloads of sand from Bridgehampton. The idea never materialized and the L-2's were placed in service throughout the island.

The C-420's served the LIRR and its customers well. However, the engineers never seemed to like them. They complained the engines were noisy, dirty, rough riding, had smoke-filled cabs and the long hood would sway back and forth on the rails too much. I think that sounds great to me, everything an ALCO should be. But then I didn't have the honor of running a C-420 for a living. Some people just have all the luck!

Copyright 2004 by Rich Gorddard Article cannot be used without written permission of the author.

lirr200AlcoIndustries.jpg (56068 bytes)
C420 #200 Jamaica

lirr200CarlePlaceSteveHoskins.jpg (61760 bytes)
C420 #200 Carle Place 
Photo: Steve Hoskins


C420 #201 Mineola

202-Morris Park.jpg (75268 bytes)
C420 #202 Morris Park


C420 #203 Ronkonkoma


C420 #204 Morris Park

L205-Jamaica.jpg (156888 bytes)
C420 #205 Jamaica

C420 #206 Oyster Bay

C420 #207 LI City
Collection: Dave Keller

C420 #208 Morris Park
Collection: Dave Keller


C420 #209 Mineola

L210-Morris Park1.jpg (64982 bytes)
C420 #210 Morris Park

LIRR210-C420Landia11-1-70JT.jpg (51566 bytes)
C420 #210 Landia 11/01/1970 
Photo: John McCluskey

L211builderphoto.jpg (28886 bytes)
C420 #211 Builder Photo 1963

L211-Brightwaters.jpg (58788 bytes)
C420 #211 Brightwaters

212-Long Island City.jpg (72216 bytes)
C420 #212 L.I. City


C420 #213 Mastic


C420 #214 Babylon

C420-214-one-car-train-Riverhead-4-8-74.jpg (61715 bytes)
C420 #214 Riverhead
04/08/1974  Jeff Erlitz photo, Dave Keller archive


C420 #215 Mineola

lirr215_passingSunnysidetoHuntPtAve-QBlvdoverpass10-74JoeDaly.jpg (88829 bytes)
C420 #215 Sunnyside MTA Scheme
10/1974 Photo: Joe Daly


C420 #216 Bay Shore


C420 #217 Nassau Tower


C420 #218 Bay Shore


C420 #219 Bay Shore

lirr219joetischner-southampton.jpg (55483 bytes)
C420 #219 Southampton

LIRR219atUnionHallStation2-22-70JT.jpg (66898 bytes)
C420 #219 Union Hall Station
02/22/70 Photo: John McCluskey


C420 #220 Brightwaters


C420 #221 Brightwaters

All photos Steve Hoskins unless noted.


lirr224upperstripenarrow-tdarnell.jpg (69853 bytes)
LIRR #224 upper stripe narrow 
Morris Park c. 02-03/1976
Photo: Tim Darnell

lirr224-upperstripe-tdarnell.jpg (91412 bytes)
LIRR #224 upper stripe 
"correct" repaint
Photto: Tim Darnell

The GP38-2 units arrived in blue and white. After a short while on the property, the red was added, due to the bicentennial (1776-1976) plus a special, bicentennial logo.  

After the bicentennial was over, they reverted back to blue and white. 
Info: Dave Keller




 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alco’s 222 - 229 were classified as L-2's by the MTA in 1968


C420 #222 Brightwaters

lirr223speonk09-1986tomcollins4.jpg (30863 bytes)
C420 #223 Speonk 08/1986
Photo: Tom Collins
lirr223-MP15Smithtown.jpg (69227 bytes)
C420 #223 Smithtown
lirr223PineAire.jpg (46558 bytes)
C420 #223 Pine Aire

C420 #223 Brightwaters

C420 #224 Holban

C420 #225 LI City
lirr225PineAire.jpg (63494 bytes)
C420 #225 Pine Aire
lirr226Smithtown.jpg (81399 bytes)
C420 #226 Smithtown

C420 #226 Morris Park
lirr227HunterspointAve.jpg (100714 bytes)
C420 #227 Hunters Point
Photo: Joe Daly
lirr227-229Smithtown.jpg (72202 bytes)
C420 #227, #229 Smithtown


C420 #227 LI City

lirr227PineAire.jpg (109240 bytes)
C420 #227 Pine Aire
lirr227Riverhead.jpg (101028 bytes)
C420 #227 Riverhead
lirr228lentorney.jpg (72787 bytes)
C420 #228  St. James 1979
Photo: Len Torney
lirr228Setauket.jpg (69607 bytes)
C420 #228, #229  Setauket 
lirr228OBay09-03-78.jpg (69973 bytes)
C420 #228 Oyster Bay 09/03/1978
lirr228eastwilliston11-09-69joetestagrose.jpg (61129 bytes)
C420 #228 E. Williston
Photo: Joe Testagrose

C420 #228 Brightwaters
lirr229-155_cabC55KingsPark06-10-85.jpg (51638 bytes)
C420 #229, MP15AC  #155, LIRR C55 King's Park 06/10/1985
lirr229eastport07-89tomcollins.jpg (49489 bytes)
C420 #229 Eastport 07/1989
Photo: Tom Collins

C420 #229 Brightwaters

lirr229LongIslandCity02-04-76.jpg (53043 bytes)
C420 #229 LI City 02/04/1976

Editor’s note: The following is part 2 of a two part series. We ran part 1 in the last edition of the RPO. Both parts of this story were originally run in the Sep/Oct. and the Nov/Dec. editions of the RPO in 1996. Please note that the whereabouts of the former LIRR C-420’s listed in this article were factual in 1996 but may not be factual today.  

When the LIRR brought the L-1’s to the island, it spelled the end of the Fairbanks-Morse era on the railroad. What goes around comes around, because in 1976, the LIRR started to take delivery of EMD GP 38-2’s. This was the beginning of the end for the C420’s. In 1977, EMD MP-15AC’s and SW -1001’s arrived on the property and that was the final nail in the coffin for the L-1’s. The L-2’s miraculously survived into the late 1980' s.

The C420’s as a group wore different paint schemes over the years. From grey and orange, to blue and yellow, to the blue and white wave scheme to match the GP 38’s to the handsome bicentennial wave scheme of the famous LIRR President Francis Gabreski era.

I must admit that I had an unhealthy appreciation for these hulking Alcos. There was always something that increased the adrenaline flow when I saw a C420 rumble by. The earth trembled, black smoke belched forth, it was something I will always remember. On a quiet night, I could hear the C420’s idling in the Ronkonkoma yards. Even the sound of an Alco 251 engine, was like music to my ears. I was so attached to these engines, I could tell the difference in the sound of these engines from the rest of the fleet.

As the lease on the L-1's were about to expire, the LIRR felt that to continue to lease the engines was too costly a proposition, so they were removed from the property, and replaced by a fleet of aging GP-7’s and 9’s, from Precision National and Bangor & Aroostook Railroad.

In September of 1989, I was lucky enough to ride, photograph and video the last trip in passenger service of the C420’s. The Morris Park forces had the 225 and 229 looking great for the fan trip that day. The highlight of the trip came at the Clinton Avenue grade crossing for a final photo run by. The engineer was given the OK and he loaded the engines up to send plumes of glorious Alco smoke into the sky.

They are all gone now, just a memory. Besides working on Long Island, the engines did, but briefly leave the island. In 1964, units 207 and 208 were loaned briefly to the New Haven Railroad. The Delaware & Hudson leased many different C420’s over the years. The 223 was leased to Metro-North for work train service. Metro-North even thought about acquiring the L-2 fleet, but the units were too high to work the tunnels of Park Avenue.

You may ask whatever happened to the C420’s. Some survived the scrapper's torch and are still in operation, one in New York State.

When the lease on the Alcos expired, 200-209 were shipped to the Delaware and Hudson’s Colonie Shops. Number 208 was sent to Morrison-Knudsen in Boise, Idaho. Numbers 210-221 went to the Morristown & Erie. Soon afterward the final fate was sealed and the engines were sold off all over North America.  200 was sent to Delaware and now operates on the Livonia, Avon & Lakeville RR.  201 & 202 were Sold to M-K and used on the Vermont Northern RR.  203, 205  & 207 went to Trans Action Lines and were used on the Erie-Western RR (205: 09/26/77 first run). 204, 210 & 221 were sold to DMV, and leased to Virginia & Maryland. 206, 210-216, 218 & 219 were sold to the Roberval & Saguenay RR in Canada.  208 was sold to M-K then later used on the Detroit & Mackinac.  217 & 220 were sold to Naporano Iron & Metal in Newark, New Jersey.

The L2’s lasted until the late 1980’s. As I mentioned before, 225 and 229 ran a fan trip in 1989. After that trip, the L2’s were seen in work train service, most notably on the Port Jefferson branch. Shortly after that, one of the engines developed severe trouble with either the trucks, wheels or traction motors, and the decision was not to incur the expense of repairing the problem. Also, Alco parts were getting very hard to come by. I have been told that 222-229 were all sold to Naporano Iron & Metal of Newark New Jersey.  Naporano resold the engines to a South American country.

The units which went to the Roberval & Saguenay RR in Quebec are all still in operation. Several of them have had their high short hoods chopped down, others have not received this disfigurement. Hopefully they will not. Hi-Ball productions of New Hampshire has a video on the Roberval & Saguenay, and I recommend this tape if you would like to see these ex-LIRR units in action.

The Arkansas & Missouri run almost exclusively C420’s. None to my knowledge are of LIRR heritage. The Livonia, Avon & Lakeville RR in upstate New York is running ex-LIRR #200. The policy of LA&L is to number the engine according to the model. Hence, it has been renumbered 420. They also have a C425, and its number is, you guessed it...425.

Ex-LIRR 221 eventually made it from the Virginia & Maryland to the New York, Susquehanna & Western. The NYS&W renumbered her 2002. Rumor has it this engine is somewhere in or around Buffalo, and is owned by a private owner. {Editor's Note: As of press time, it has been learned this locomotive has been purchased by Buffalo Southern.}

After retirement on the LIRR, the C420's saw service on the railroads named above. However, some units went on to live even fuller lives.

            The 201, 204, 217 and 220 worked on the Mexican Railway system. The 207 went from the Erie Western to become 101 on the Little Rock & Western. The 201,202 and 204 were used by Morrison-Knudsen on the Vermont Northern. Number 202 was later resold to P. V. Commodity Ltd. in Calgary, Canada. The 207 worked the Green Bay yards on the Green Bay & Western.

In 1976, a new person in charge of the fleet came from the Milwaukee Road, which sported an all-EMD fleet. Besides at this time ALCO had ceased to exist since 1969. LIRR/MTA management switched to GP 38-2’s, MP-15AC’s, and SW-1001’s as the ALCO fleet was aging. The 252 was the only GP 38-2 to be delivered in bicentennial colors, and was almost exactly the same as the bicentennial engines of the Milwaukee Road. 

Here are what's left:

200 is now (
LA&L) Livonia, Avon & Lakeville #420, Lakeville, NY, operational  in service 1995
Photo: Lakeville Yard Bulk Transfer Facility LALRR-C420-exLIRR200.jpg (31301 bytes)

LIRR 200 working freight upstate on the Livonia, Avon & Lakeville, from this past August.jpg (78879 bytes)  08/2008 Photo: Otto Vondrak

204, 220 in Mexico, going to museum, scrapped 204 parts to go for 220

207 (LR&W)  Little Rock & Western #101, Little Rock, Arkansas, chop nose, scrapped, used for parts 


211  VLIX 41 at Delaware Lackawanna shops,  it may have been heavily vandalized,  now owned by Delaware Lackawanna. (Paul Strubeck 07/08)


213 Dakota Southern RR  #213, operational, needs wheel work. 213 was supposed to have a truck swap with an EMD, which would lower it to the standard 70 mph. I assume they did or planned to do this to take advantage of the famous Alco acceleration capability. Info from Nicholas Todd.

208 Lake States #976 chop nose, had major fire recently and will be scrapped. 208 was supposedly scrapped. Info from Nicholas Todd.
202, 203, 205, and the R&S units (206,209,212,214,215,216,218,219) have been scrapped.

210 was scrapped shortly after being stripped for parts. 210 sank on a barge; subequently salvaged. Info from Nicholas Todd.

The 222-229 were to be sold through Naporano in 1989, which bid the highest price, to a company in Suriname. There was only one company that I was aware of that had rails there: A bauxite firm which bought two SP RSD12s from Chrome Crankshaft ca. 1980. Supposedly this operation never got off, but the tracks still exist. I doubt the Alcos exist, but one never knows.

Info from Tim Darnell:

201 and 217 were scrapped down in Mexico. I've received sad news about ex-LIRR C-420 #204, it was cut up in July 2004 in Mexico. The good news is parts were taken to restore C-420 #220 and ex-D&H C-628 610. Apparently radiators were replaced with those from C-424s or M-424s by FNM or possibly MLW.  #220- Supposedly preserved in Mexico, possibly at the Merida Museum.

C420 #207 LR&W #101 is scrapped, used for parts.

C420 #208 Lake State #976 has been parted out and scrapped.

C420 #221, the last of the first batch of C420s was withdrawn from service in October, 1977.  Buffalo Southern #2010 Hamburg, NY, currently stored, but used by them previously. 

C420 #222, the first of the second batch of C420s was withdrawn from service 1/21/88.