LIRR Veteran and Future Veteran Employees

 
James C. Eichhorn, Sr. Retirement Notice 1937 Archive: Dave Keller

OLDEST ENGINE DRIVERS ON THE LONG ISLAND - VETERAN RAIL MAN WILL BE HONORED

A 1937 Testimonial Dinner, held at the Henry Perkins Hotel, Riverhead, to honor the retirement of L.G. Griffin, Railroad Engineman #11. retiring after 51 years as the #2 man on the Seniority list!

The newspaper article further indicates James Cornelius Eichhorn, Sr., the #1 man on the Seniority list, was being honored with a 50-year service pin. 

Note: A roster dated April 1, 1948 reveals the following:

There were two sons of James that became LIRR firemen and engineers within days of each other:

George E. Eichhorn entered the roster as fireman on 3/15/1916 and was promoted to engineer on 5/18/1920.
James C. Eichhorn, Jr. entered the roster shortly after as fireman on 3/29/1916 and was promoted to engineer on 5/24/1920.  Research: Dave Keller

LIRR D56 #84 4-4-0 James C. Eichhorn in engine Amato "Little Mike" Dellapolla
Standing is Clement Eichhorn c.1920 retired on July 30, 1930. Named "Walter Reed" from 1922 to around 1926
Amagansett Historical Association - East Hampton Library

LIRR #41 D52a 4-4-0 This is a special/extra train, hence the white flags on the locomotive. Archive: John Specce

Note: the first three cars are parlor cars; possibly the entire train. c.1905

Central Islip Station 4-4-0 #.521 eastbound - Crew c.1905
Archive: Art Huneke

Fireman Joseph Amott, 3rd from right, Engineer Charles McKeever, 2nd from right. Parlor Car Attendant in gray uniform 3rd from left.
Archive: John Specce

Locomotive #521 was originally #76, built by Baldwin in May, 1879.  It was renumbered #21 in the 1898 locomotive renumbering and then again renumbered to #521 between 1901 and 1903, which would make c. 1905  a reasonable date for this image at Central Islip (left).  Note the old depot doesn't yet have a bay window, which I believe was added around 1917.  It was definitely in place by 11/1925, based upon a stenciled paint date on the bay window in a photo I' have. Research: Dave Keller

Joseph H. Amott - Railroad Retirement letter - 5/17/1945
Archive: Dave Morrison

Joseph H. Amott - Railroad Retirement Board certificate 5/17/1945
Archive: Dave Morrison

K-card issued on PRR forms at PD tower back in 1941 by block operator Hotcaveg for westbound Montauk train #7. This card shows all the block office call letters from Montauk (MY) westbound to Bellport (BO). It also notes that the locomotive is PRR K2s #1458 with engineer Amott and conductor Dan Whaley. I personally knew Dan Whaley. He was about 85 at the time (1969) and was blind but rode the Scoot to and from Babylon daily using his lifetime pass, so he could kill time and shoot the breeze with the train crew. AMOTT is the name of the CTC cabin at the end of double track on the Port Jeff branch just east of Syosset and was named after several members of the AMOTT family who worked on the LIRR. Archive/Info: Dave Keller

“AMOTT” INTERLOCKING (R.C.) EAST OF SYOSSET. (CONTROLLED FROM “DIVIDE.” IN SVC: 10/7/61. NAMED IN HONOR OF RETIRED LIRR ENGINEERS JOSEPH H., JR., CHARLES A. AND JAMES A. AMOTT per The Long Island Railroader: 10/11/61). "S" cabin remained "S" cabin until it was closed on 10/07/61. It was not named "AMOTT." The remote interlocking which replaced "S" cabin was named "AMOTT" (see LI Railroader of 10/11/61). Research: Dave Keller

Per a review of the LIRR's Fireman and Engineer Seniority Roster of 1944, J. A. Robelen became a fireman on 11/20/1910 and was promoted to engineer on 6/18/1919. Info: Dave Keller As of April 1, 1948, J. A. Robelen was #55 on the Seniority roster and by April 1, 1957, he'd advanced to the #6 position. Info: Don Fisher

John A. Robelen - 2nd from right c.1923
Archive: Richard M. Pope

John A. Robelen (center) c.1923 Archive: Richard M. Pope

Engineer Frank McKeown's custom leather engraved
document carrier wallet.

Time book 1/1961 Engineer Frank McKeown

Time book 2/1960 Engineer Frank McKeown

Diesel Extras 1965 page 122-123

All materials contained within the document carrier
courtesy of Richard Glueck

Willie F. Wilson joined the Pullman Co., as a parlor car attendant (porter), in 1943 on the PRR corridor between Boston and Washington. After serving in the US Navy, 1943-1945 WW II, he returned to Pullman Co. employ 1945-1956. Employed by the PRR 1956-1961 prior to his LIRR hire 10/01/1961 as Supervisor  in the Special Services Department, created by Walter McNamara. Info: Richard Makse
 

“I originally applied for a job as a clerk on the Long Island Railroad, wishing to work in the tour department that handled tours for school children. I thought it would be a good fit since I had worked for almost a decade as a teacher. I was granted an interview by the RR and sat in front of a smug man, Edward Zeman.  First, I was told I was overqualified, because I had just completed all my credits for the Ph D. program at New York University. When I indicated that I really liked railroads and trains, I was told that the Railroad did not like or encourage people who actually liked trains to work on them. Zeman said that he thought they made bad employees. Then I said that I really needed a job that paid me more money and had some benefits. I was told that the Railroad could not help me if I needed money, that I should go up the block to the New York State Welfare Office. I was furious and humiliated. I told the interviewer that, even though I might be overqualified for the clerk's job, I would apply, forthwith, for another job, which I was sure I could get, and for which they would have to hire me. He inquired what job that might be, and I said , "Trainman", of course.  He laughed and dared me to try it.

That same day, I filled out another application, this time for Trainman, and I waited. Soon, I received a letter saying that I did not meet the height requirement for the job.  To this day, I do not know why they even bothered to answer my letter, or reject my application. The Railroad had absolutely played right into my hands. Armed with that rejection, and some statistics of my own, I marched up the block, right past the NY State Welfare office to the New York State Division of Human Rights. Before the interviewer had issued his challenge, I must admit that I had never thought of becoming a "trainman."  And I was only vaguely interested in the burgeoning  women's rights movement.

I had to prove, without the benefit of counsel, that there was probable cause to believe that the Long Island Rail Road had discriminated against me because of my gender.  This was easy: (1) The Railroad had no women employed as Conductors or Engineers. (2) The Railroad had routinely employed men who were under the so-called height requirement of 5' 7", and I had their names. (3) Therefore, the Railroad was using the "height requirement" as a subterfuge to prevent women from being employed in these positions.

Within weeks the SDHR (State Division of Human Rights, New York) had found in my favor, and I was given an attorney to shepherd my case through the Division trial, and through an appeal, if necessary. Adele Graham was a Bella Abzug look-alike who was fascinated with my case. She thought it was airtight. So did I. Try as they might to do otherwise, the Railroad made fools of their collective selves at every turn. First, they decided to fire all the Trainmen and Engineers who did not meet the "height requirement." Of course, they could not do this because the United Transportation Union, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers had contracts enforceable under the terms of the Railway Labor Act, and discipline agreements that set forth exactly for what a person could be terminated. The threat of firings, did however, garner me a few death threats from some of their vertically challenged male employees. Then the Railroad decided to hire some token females, which they did. They hired a woman who was 5'9", and made her cut her hair very short.  They outfitted her in a man's uniform, and she stuck it out for a few years.  Finally, the Railroad gave up on her when she failed to report to work for a number of weeks. She came up with the excuse that her live-in boyfriend, who was a New York City Fireman had cut up her uniform, and cuffed her to the bed to keep her from going to work. Even the Union could not save her from her eventual firing.

They also hired a former Catholic Nun, who had applied for a clerk's job. She was convinced by the Railroad that she had always wanted to be a Locomotive Engineer. She had completed training, and was actually running trains, when, one day she mistook an emergency hand signal from a man on the ground to stop her train outside a work area, for a friendly greeting. She waved back and continued on her way narrowly missing several track workers in the process. The Railroad was kind enough to transfer her to a clerk's position, what she had wanted to do in the first place.

They also hired Susan Bellamy, whose brother already worked for the railroad, and Elizabeth Deidre Hickey, while my case was still pending.  I believe Hickey was the only one of the originals, besides myself, who managed to retire from the railroad.

My case dragged on for four years. The Division level public hearing transcript was over 1000 pages. A kind Engineer, who would not be intimidated, volunteered to come forth and testify. Louis Cersosim was about 5'3", and had worked for the Railroad for about 15 years, starting out as a Fireman. When the Railroad attorney threatened to have him terminated for having lied about his height on the application, he just laughed at them, and continued his testimony. I had not known Louis before he volunteered to testify. He had not even been on my list of men under 5' 7", but to me he was ten feet tall.

Needless to say the Division ordered the railroad to hire me. But they failed to mention that I should be hired with retroactive seniority and back pay, which would "make me whole" for their discriminatory practices. So I appealed, and won my appeal. Then, faced with the possibility of my being hired, the Railroad went to the Appellate Division of the New York State Supreme Court.  The Appeals Court ruled in my favor in December, 1975. Throughout the case I had gotten great support from the New York newspapers, including the Daily News, Newsday, and the New York Post. I was routinely interviewed on the John Gambling Radio Show, he being also one of the vertically challenged. I had caught the attention of Mary Gay Taylor on News Radio 88, so she broadcast many updates on my story.

After losing its appeal before the appellate division of the State Supreme Court the railroad was  finally ordered to hire me with four years back wages, and four years back seniority.  Just before Christmas I reported for my physical examination. On December 24th, Robert  Peterson, Superintendent of Personnel, wrote to say that I had passed the physical examination, but failed the "eye test." He indicated that the Railroad would still hire me, but without the back pay or seniority. 

Once again,  I was furious. So, I did the only thing I could think of at the time. I wrote a letter to David Yunich - then Chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the parent company of the Long Island Rail Road, indicating how the Railroad had tried to rewrite the Appeal Court's decision, and how, if the railroad had not discriminated against me in the first place, and hired me four years earlier, they would have found that my vision, at that time, would have been 20 -20. How could they penalize me for their having failed to test my eyes in 1972? And, so that David would take heed, I sent a copy of that letter to every newspaper, TV, and radio station in the Metropolitan Area. Well, the media descended upon Yunich with a frenzy.  Betty Furness, in particular, came to my aid, and in 48 hours, I received a written apology from David Yunich, with assurances that my seniority and  retroactive pay would be forthcoming.

I joined the next railroad brakeman's training class, and with $25,000. riding on the outcome, passed the written Brakeman's Test with "flying colors". So, I was the first female brakeman since World War II, and the first qualified female Conductor ever on the LIRR, although Hickey and Bellamy actually worked before I did. My seniority was given me retroactively* by order of the court back to 1972 as a brakeman. My seniority as a Conductor was also backdated to the class, I would have been in, had I been hired in 1972." Carol Mills

Brakeman July 21, 1972 (I actually started working in 1976 as a Brakeman thanks to the retroactivity*)
Road Conductor May 3, 1977 (I actually started working in 1982 as a Conductor  thanks to the retroactivity*).
Assistant Trainmaster  1985
Supervisor Train Movement  1990
Transportation Manager 1994
Retired on November 1, 1997 after 25 years service.

* Awarded by the State Division of  Human Rights which was affirmed by the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of the State of New York.

NEWSDAY

DAILY NEWS

Carol Mills-Nichol was the pioneer for women in the operating department of the LIRR. Carol (Carol Wagner at the time) sought a position as a trainman trainee back in 1972.

 Her application was rejected because she was too short to reach the emergency communicating buzzer button located in the M1 car ceiling.

She told LIRR mgmt. that all she would have to do, if it became necessary to use the buzzer, would be to stand on an armrest.  Didn't matter - her application was rejected.

 Carol sued the LIRR and won her case.  She was awarded the position on the LIRR with full seniority and back-pay effective at the date of her original application. When the new roster was issued with Carol's name on it, the seniority ranking for female train persons was:

1 - Carol Mills
     2 - Susan Bellamy
     3 - Deidre Hickey

Harry A. Glueck, a civil engineer, was heavily involved in the LIRR grade crossing eliminations, in various roles as he progressed up the promotion chain. He started work in the Depression Era as a crossing guard with a college degree in engineering from Cooper Union, then became a draftsman and finished his Career as Superintendent of Track, Division 1. A couple of highlights I'd like to point out, as follows:

He hated Bay Ridge Yard with a passion as there was nothing but problems; rolled rails, kids getting killed by hitting catenary, and wrecks to supervise. He placed G5s #39 on display at the Carriage House Museum in Stony Brook (left) and assisted with #35 going into Salisbury Park. He worked in snowstorms on the Island and often spent days sleeping in fits in his office while crews cleared switches, as he was a company man.

If there was a wreck, he went out into the field to make certain the tracks were not responsible for a derailment. His family paid for his service to the railroad, sadly. But he rarely drank and then only socially, if obligated, he never shamed my mother and did his best to protect her from men who shamed their wives. His colleagues and subordinates said frankly, he was a "son-of-a-bitch to work for", but they respected him. When he retired, after 43 years, he left the LIRR behind him, and never missed it at all. That give you an example of the pressure under which he worked. Richard Glueck   MORE: The Man Who Made the Trains Run: Harry Glueck by: Richard Glueck
 

M1 #9055 derail at Babylon Yard Harry Glueck at far right.

The M1 #9055 derailment, late Spring 1969, was one I attended with my father. Nobody was supposed to take pictures of anything "bad" happening to the LIRR, but my father asked his boss if I could take pictures provided they were for my own collection and wouldn't wind up in Newsday.

The M1's had just arrived and weren't fitting in too well, due to growing pains and dissimilar equipment. Then, in a new batch, two burned to the floors in a fire and the press went crazy over it.

 Anyway, George Winter, my Father's peer, agreed to allow the pictures based on my word of honor. I kept them squirreled away for almost thirty years! The M1's are still new equipment in my mind, even though they are now as rare as MP70's! The M1's in this case, split a switch in Babylon Yard. It was going to require a great deal of shuffling to get the commuters out the following morning, but as was the case more often than not, the LIRR came through. These brand new MU cars went into the back shop and required some rebuilding. Photos/Info: Richard Glueck

Harry Glueck - Safety Plaque Retired - LI Railroader 3/14/1963

1939 Draftsman
1942 Inspector- Grade Elimination
1944 Inspector
1946 Inspector-25 Employees
1947 General Foreman
1947 General Foreman-25 Employees
1948 Assistant Supervisor Track
1964 General Roadmaster
1969 Assistant Engineer of Track
1973 Assistant Engineer of Track
1973 Staff Engineer-MW
1974 Staff Engineer-MW, Retired

She is currently "Elizabeth Deidre Hickey" 65 years old, living in Hingham, Massachusetts. Info: Dave Morrison 2021

BAR #69 P72 #2959 sealed ends -Engineer Charlie Read with the Greenport-Ronkonkoma Scoot, Greenport - 8/1976
Photo/Archive: Dan Marra, Sr.

Charlie Read - LIRR-Engineer BAR #69 cab
8/1976 Photo/Archive: Dan Marra, Sr.

 Long Island Express Co., created by the LIRR, 1882 - 1913,  handled local baggage and express shipments. Adams Express Co., a nation-wide concern, 1913- July 1, 1918, took  over L. I. Express and allowed through-express service to the nation. Research: Dave Keller

 
Trainman-Conductor at LI City 1897 - LI Express Co. cart at mail baggage car.
(Fullerton-Queensborough Library)

LIRR #55 D53b White Hats  crew  - Long Beach c.1890
Archive: Art Huneke - The White cap was worn by all train crew members (conductor, trainman, brakeman, collector, guard) from c. 1908 to c. 1915.  It was the summer issue cap used by both the LIRR and the parent PRR.  Info: Dave Keller

Greenport-Sag Harbor shuttle at Bridgehampton. Left to right are Fireman Butch Aldrich, Engineman Patrick Murray, Brakeman Carl Vaughn and Charles Cunningham, and Conductor "pop" Mason. Youngster named Bob Palmer is in the cab. Conductor L. C. Hantz located the old picture from 1896. LI Railroader September 1953

Train Inspection Car Jamaica Station tracks c.1905

LIRR #195 MOW crane and crew c.1910 
Archive:  Charles A. Althof

LIRR #21 - Engineer Charles Benjamin 1912-1934 Photo: 7/28/1934

Mastic Station Agent c.1900 Archive: Dave Keller

Clearing the turnouts 1948 Photo: LIFE - George Silk

Jakobson Shipyard, Oyster Bay new switch installation
View E  1940  - Photo: Ted Sommer  Archive Dave Keller

H10s #117 Taking Water Hicksville 7/25/1952
Archive: Dave Keller

Track worker - Richmond Hill storage yard view SE
Archive: Dave Morrison

Gas Car  #1134 Crew Sag Harbor 4/1939
Archive: Dave Keller

Clearing the turnouts 1948 
Photo: LIFE  George Silk 

8th Avenue Engine House - Bay Ridge LI Railroader 11/1955 Archive: Mike Boland

M of W & Signal Department - 10/25/1945

LIRR #35 G5s Engine Wipers at 
Morris Park Shops10/1942+ 
Archive: Ron Zinn

LIRR #49 G5s  Engine Wipers at 
Morris Park Shops 10/1942+  Archive: Ron Zinn

World War II Women workers -  Morris Park 9/1942 Archive: Paul Pappas

World War II Women workers with DD1 at Morris Park 10/1942


The "new" Morris Park coaling tower was built in the Fall of 1944, so . . . as the wartime women workers are on the job, this photo, view E,  had to have been taken
sometime between the Fall of 1944 when the tower was erected and the war's end on Sept. 2, 1945 (VJ Day.  VE day was in May of that year).  Dave Keller

PRR #5387 leased K4s 4-6-2   Engine Wipers at 
Morris Park Shops 1943
Archive: Ron Zinn

Morris Park Shops 10/1942
Photo: Roy Pinney  Archive: Ron Zinn

 
Yard switch tender while the men are at war. 
 LI City - Sunnyside c.1942+

LIRR Special Services Alexander Serzanin bartending the 5:38PM Jamaica outbound Christmas Party 12/19/1952

Hillside track gang close-up view E 4/30/1931
 Archive: Dave Keller

Track Crew at PD 1968
Archive: Dave Keller

Watchman  lowering gates at Broadway, Hicksville 1959 Archive: MTA

LIRR Alco S1 #415 westbound at Hempstead Ave-West Hempstead  late 1950's Archive: Jim Gillin

FM CPA20-5 #2006 at Montauk

VD Yard Oxy-acetylene welding zoom
6/01/1964 (Ziel-Boland)

Patchogue - South Ocean Avenue crew inspects the track after 50 day strike - View E  1/19/1973 Photo: Long Island Daily Press

High level platforms and third rail are in place, but the guard boards atop the third rail have not yet been installed. That's the last thing to do before turning on the juice.

As electrification was completed in October, 1970 and electric service having commended that month, this photo was most probably taken during the summer of 1970 (leaves all on the tree in the background), leaving the remaining several months to get the guard boards in place and the juice flowing. Dave Keller
 

FM #2403 Hicksville- Engineer Cecil "Crafty" Craft  zoom (Votava-Boland)

Engineer Cecil Craft leaning out the fireman's window chatting up photographer George Votava on the platform. He's also wearing the same bow-tie that he always wore with his engineer's overalls. Craft was the last of the old-time engineers who took pride in wearing traditional railroad attire, while all the younger engineers around him began wearing T-shirts and jeans and going hatless. Craft entered the roster in 1918. Info: Dave Keller
 

The LIRR Mini-Maid program was alive and well for several years. Women in the employ of the railroad could volunteer to be fitted with a yellow mini-dress and work at public affair functions from time to time. Hank and Lou (Big Dumb Lou; see photo above) along with Don Malone of the Public Affairs department, all great enthusiasts of both trains, women and mini-skirts in general came up with the idea in 1968. Since most women on the railroad at the time were in the clerical ranks, most of the Mini-Maids were clerks in their 20's.

In later years, long after the program ended some of the women moved on to management jobs. One became the Secretary to the President, another a planner, while yet another became a Trainmaster. At least one supervisor recalled the Mini-Maid roster and would tease the women from time to time about that rung in their ladder of success.

From the late 1940's through the early 1970's. the LIRR supported an award-winning Public Affairs department which was quite the envy of corporations across the country which would send their publicists to the Railroad for ideas and training. 

Postmistress Janet Jordan - Shinnecock Hills Mail Crane - View E  8/16/1963 (Kohl-Morrison)

1975 LIRR booklet " Facts and Figures"
Photo: Joseph C. Farrington

 Steve Anglin of Babylon, dressed as Santa Claus, boards a Babylon-bound LIRR train on Dec. 16, 1965. Mr. Anglin was Director of Special Services for the railroad and welcomed commuters to a Christmas party aboard the train.  (Newsday-Don Jacobsen)

Amagansett MP92 MOW workers digging out PNC #1706
2/05/1977 Archive: Patrick Marinaccio

LIRR C420 #229 Conrail GE B23-7 #2805 Fresh Pond Interchange c.1985 Archive: Frank Fiore

South of Fresh Pond Junction where the NYCRR used to run near the abandoned Fremont Tower: 12/1970

Junction of Montauk Branch and Conrail. Previously "FN" Tower. CR makes the set outs for the LIRR to pick up. View N. The crews are discussing the upcoming freight moves. 

LIRR  SW1001 #100  Fresh Pond c.1980

Merrick Station Grade Crossing Elimination Project finishing touches - View SW 1975 Archive: Merrick Library
 

HJ Tower Operator Patrick J. Keane 1935
Photo: Win A. Boerckel Archive: David Morrison

HALL Tower, Jamaica Operator Arthur Huneke 9/1971

Block Operator Art Huneke works at his desk at "HALL" tower, Jamaica, on a hot afternoon in September, 1971.  Art held the 2nd trick (2nd shift) at "HALL" tower for many years until his retirement in the mid-1980s.  (Dave Keller photo and archive)

 
Day one of the 50-day strike of LIRR employees on 11/30/1972. LIRR worker, John Spenyovics, picketing out front at Babylon Station with his 3 daughters. LIRR employees returned to work on 1/19/1973 after 7 weeks of striking.  (LI Press-Chris Klug)

Employee G. DePiazzy at SG 1972
Archive: Dave Keller

Frank Fiore, Dale Tynan and crew in the clear at the old CI Hospital Siding c.1980 - RF&P boxcar Photo/Archive: Frank Fiore

"Givin' the Highball" Overhead structure is walkway from Metropolitan Ave. Likely, this is 4:52 from LI City, that did local stops on the  lower Montauk. 6/1989.
Conductor is Pete Holowchak and the train is #562   Photo: A. J. Daly

Babylon Station crews 3/05/2015

Mr. Met 4/13/2015

LIRR brakeman at Fremont Jct. 1991

Engineer Joe Vila and Conductor Joe Maniscalco - Train #2716 the
end of manual block operation (MBS)Montauk Yard 11/10/2017
Photo: Adam Schwartz   Archive: Joe Vila

Changing times at Divide: In July of 1987, much of Divide's territory was already being operated by the newer computerized equipment, or CPU's, as I recall they were called. The CTC portion of the original machine that controlled from Divide interlocking east, to Post 2 in Smithtown, was already out-of-service, and being controlled by the CPU's.

The Entrance-Exit portion, which controlled the Divide interlocking limits in Hicksville, was already on the CPU's, and just a small portion of the interlocking, between signal bridges 1 and 4, was still controlled by the old machine. This can be seen in the photo directly under the portable radio, which was used to converse with the signal maintainer.

Even at 2:10AM in the morning, it could still get a bit busy. Train Director Sal Valenti is completing a move on the CPU's, while the Assistant TD, yours truly, was on a quick break to take the photo. As always, we kept them all moving, and on time, that overnight.   Jay Bendersky

Port Jefferson Train #635 Crew - 1941

Left to right:
D. V. Little - Front Trainman
F. B. Kingsbury - Flagman
Frank Gardner - Conductor
RPO Clerk - unidentified
R. H. Smith - Engineer
Fireman - unidentified

Photo: Robert Emery Archive: SUNY Stony Brook

Train crews have assigned spots on the train for ticket collection and sales, especially on LONG, crowded, rush-hour trains.  The Front Trainman would be responsible for collecting and selling tickets in the few head-end cars.  The conductor would take the middle few cars and the rear brakeman would handle the last several cars, allowing him to run out along the track when necessary with a red flag (or red lantern) should the train break down.

The flagman indicated is probably the brakeman, though why Emery didn't call him that is odd.  On super-crowded trains, train crews can't make it through the entire train, punching and collecting tickets and many people get away with a free ride.  To attempt to keep that from happening , ticket collectors are assigned those trains.  Dave Keller