LIRR
TURNTABLES |
Just how
unique is the
Oyster Bay
turntable? How many
turntables were in operation on Long Island and how many
turntables exist on Long Island today? A 1924
LIRR document from the collection of retired LIRR Maintenance of
Equipment Supervisor Carl Dimino indicates that the railroad
categorized turntables by number.
The numbers ranged from 1 to 17 with six blanks, to wit:
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Turntable # Location
1 Bay Ridge
2 ________
3 Greenport
4 Jamaica Yard
5 ________
6 Long Island City
7 Dutchkills
8 ________
9 Morris Park Shops
10 Oyster Bay
11 Patchogue
12 ________
13 Port Washington
14 Riverhead
15 ________
16 ________
17 Whitestone Landing
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The five locations on the
list that are blank are a mystery, however both Art Huneke and
Dave Keller advise that at one time there were turntables at these
locations: Flatbush Avenue Terminal, Islip, Port Jefferson,
Rockaway Beach, Brighton Beach, Sag Harbor and Hempstead. One
turntable was located by the remains of the brick turntable pit
wall in Old Bethpage State Park as follows:
The
oldest remains of a turntable on Long Island
An
article on Long Island turntables would not be complete if the old
brick-wall turntable pit at Bethpage State Park
were not mentioned. This
is one of the oldest surviving railroad structures on
Long Island. This turntable pit wall
was found in 1988 by the team of Arthur Lubitz, Arthur Huneke and
the author, who were walking the right-of-way of the old Bethpage
Spur. The pit
measurements indicate that the turntable would have been a 50
footer, short by modern standards but common at that time.
It was built circa 1873 when A. T. Stewart built the
Bethpage Spur of his Central Railroad to haul bricks from the
Bethpage
brickyards to Garden City for construction of homes in that
community. The
turntable was only in use until 1879 when passenger service was
abandoned on the spur. This
turntable pit is truly a relic from the past.
A plaque was installed by NY State prior to the 2002 US
Open Golf Tournament in Bethpage
State Park.
Photo:
Unknown
Bethpage Turntable Pit and plaque 4/08/2018 Photos: Dave Morrison
Location map: Mapquest 2013
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The
turntable at Morris Park is still operational and is used on a
regular basis by the LIRR. The
turntable at Greenport is under the auspices of the Railroad
Museum of Long Island (RMLI) and is pretty much intact and pending
full restoration. At
their Riverhead facility, RMLI has a turntable that they purchased
in 2002 from the upstate
Arcade
and Attica Railroad. This
85' turntable was built in 1915 and weighs 60 tons.
RMLI will have to dig a pit, build a round wall and install
a circular ring rail in order to get the turntable operational.
The goal is to have steam locomotive trips between
Riverhead and Greenport using Locomotive #39 with the ability to
turn the locomotive at each of the terminals.
That will truly be an exciting
Long Island
tourist attraction.
Taking
into consideration the foregoing, it is evident that there are
presently no operational turntables viewable to the public on
Long Island. The Morris Park
turntable lies within a secure LIRR shop facility, out of reach of
the public eye. The
two RMLI turntables are not yet operational.
That means if the Oyster Bay turntable is put into
operation in the near future, it will be the only railroad
turntable viewable to the
Long Island
public. 2008
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Railroad
historians role in preserving turntable history
A noted
railroad historian and author, Vincent F. Seyfried, has often
said, "If it weren't for the larceny of its own employees,
the Long Island Rail Road would have no history."
Sadly, he is probably correct, although the "larceny"
word should be considered as being used in a hyperbolic sense.
It is widely known in railroad history circles that the LIRR does
not have a historic archives and most of the railroad's history
lies in a few libraries and museums as well as being scattered in
the hands of private collectors and railroad historians. To
that end, a wealth of thanks should go to persons who helped in
the creation of this turntable history, to name a few:
Carl
Dimino, retired LIRR Maintenance of Equip. Supervisor who also
provided the Oyster Bay Historical Society with the only known
railroad station pre-1964 interior floor plan.
Robert M. Emery, the late LIRR Conductor
Arthur Huneke, retired LIRR Train Director who has an
outstanding LIRR history website at: http://arrts-arrchives.com/
Dave Keller, LIRR Historian and author of two LIRR pictorial
history books. His fine website may be seen at: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirrphotos/lirrphotos.htm
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Turning an Engine at Oyster
Bay
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It's a cool March 14th, 1953 and FM CPA24-05 #2402 has just been cut off
from its eastbound train at Oyster Bay and is now headed, with trainman
riding the rear ladder, towards the turntable to be spun and headed in a
westerly direction. (Will Faxon photo, Dave Keller archive and data)
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Here's a close-up showing the
trainman in uniform and overcoat riding the rear ladder of the C-liner.
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The C-liner has just passed the photographer in its jaunt to the
turntable. (Will Faxon photo, Dave Keller archive and data)
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Already on the turntable, #2402 has begun
to spin. The hostler is operating the electric controls at the front
end of the locomotive. At the right, looking on, is G5s #38. (Will
Faxon photo, Dave Keller archive and data)
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#2402 has now spun about 90 degrees. (Will Faxon photo, Dave Keller
archive and data)
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And now we're almost back to the turntable access track. Once lined up,
the hostler will give the engineer the go-ahead and he will take #2402 off
the turntable, head back west and couple onto his train. (Will Faxon
photo, Dave Keller archive and data)
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Turntables
Babylon
1888 Hyde Map Turntable: Collection: Stony
Brook, NY
Bay Ridge
62nd St. and 8th Ave location left: 1924 razed
1928, right: current 2009 view
Creedmoor:
Apparently, when the line was cut back to Creedmoor,
a turntable had been installed. In May, 1882 an accident occurred at
the turntable. Research/Photo: Art Huneke
The
"heavyweight" locomotive #32 mentioned in the above article was,
in actuality, not so much a "heavyweight" but a 4-4-0
American-type built by Schenectady (ALCO) in April, 1873. After the
LIRR's renumbering of locomotives in 1898, #32 became #15 and another
4-4-0 American-type, this time a class D52 built the same year as the
renumbering, was assigned #32. I gather the pre-1898 #32 appeared to
be a "heavyweight" to the reporter, in 1882, when he compared it
to his memory of the "Aerial" or "Post Boy!"
Research: Dave Keller
Dutch Kills
Wheelspur
Yard blueprint c1910 Archive: Art Huneke
Dutch Kills turntable 10/1915 Archive: Art Huneke
Greenport
LI City: Had several turntables
LI
City Passenger Yard turntable 1891
LI City Passenger Yard turntables 1903
Locust Valley:
When it was the end of the line
Manhattan Beach
Morris Park Shops:
All LIRR observation cars were turned on
the table east of the Richmond Hill Storage Yard, and west of
the trainmen's building, on the north side of the Montauk branch
embankment. Info: Dave Keller
Old Bethpage: For the Central RR of Long Island trains
Old Far Rockaway
Far Rockaway Turntable and Engine House
blueprint 1907 Archive: Art
Huneke
Old Flatbush Avenue
Old Hempstead
Hempstead
Turntable blueprint 1892 Archive: Art Huneke
The Long Island's Hempstead branch terminated at Main St., Hempstead.
(Main St. ran parallel with the LIRR's ROW)
The CRR of LI's Hempstead branch terminated at Fulton St., (Later Fulton Ave.) Hempstead, with terminal adjacent to the old Presbyterian Church.
This line ran parallel one block over from the LIRR's ROW. When the LIRR acquired the CRR of LI, (1876) the Central's terminal facilities were much newer (1872) and of better construction (Stewart's
brick!) than the LIRR's (1839) so the LIRR abandoned and tore out THEIR terminal and took over the Central's terminal and used it instead.
The Central's depot was replaced in 1913. The tracks were cut back to Columbia Street beginning in 1941 and the
1913 depot was moved back and relocated there in 1943.
Competition: The LIRR's branch from Mineola to Hempstead was constructed in 1839. The CRR of LI's branch to Hempstead was constructed in 1872. If anybody was looking for competition, it was A. T. Stewart, not the LIRR. They were there first . . . and for many years.
Research: Dave Keller
Old Jamaica:
Before the elimination (see bottom of page)
Oyster Bay
Patchogue: South Side RR extension to Patchogue 1869, with turntable west of
town ( west of River Ave), relocated by 1903 into main yard area by West Ave.
Port Jefferson: The turntable came out in 1922, the same year the wye was
installed
Port Washington
Richmond Hill Storage
Yard: After the elimination
Riverhead
Rockaway
Park:
Rockaway Park map - LIRR-BRT joint service 1916
Archive: The Keystone
Sag Harbor
Whitestone
Landing: Steam ran on the Whitestone Branch in the early years before the days of
MU's and there was a turntable
and enginehouse.
Also, Turntables at:
Farmingdale: Opened c. 1842. That means it could have been a year earlier, perhaps.
Conjecture only. Would make sense if the end of track.
Fire Place (Carmen's River):
There were various points along the way that were temporary ends of the line as construction was underway along the next section of ROW.
Conjecture only. Would make sense if the end of track.
Hicksville:
Temporary end of the line in 1837. Conjecture only. Would make
sense if the end of track.
Note from Dave Keller: "... P.S. Better write this down. After I turn off my marker lights and leave for the big engine house, nobody will remember this stuff and urban legend will develop such as "all trains were backed up into Jamaica in steam days" or some such trash . . .
" Research: Dave Keller
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Greenport
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Aerial View 2011
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Greenport yard and turntable view East
c. 1900+
Collection: Dave Morrison
LIRR FM#2002 02/22/1964
Photo: Robert B. Dunnet
Archive: Dave Keller
LIRR C420 #210
Greenport turntable 4/27/66 Photo/Archive: Jim Gillin
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06-05-55 Fantrip
Collection: Art Huneke
06-05-55 Fantrip
Collection: Art Huneke
175th Anniversary Fantrip 07/25/09
Photo: Al Castelli
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12-15-2004
Boy Scout Tony Breese, working on his Eagle Scout project, along with his entire troop,
have cleaned and restored the Greenport turntable pit. After days of cleaning and landscaping the pit, yards and yards of GeoTex were spread and several inches of bluestone have been put down across the entire crater!
2006
175th Anniversary Fantrip 07/25/09
Photo: Neil Feldman |
1. Turntable 2. Freight House 3.
Current Platform 4. Museum - ex. Pass Station
2006 |
LIRR #1556
c. early 1970's
Info/Collection: Tim Darnell
2/02/2008 Photo: Joe Sam
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Railfan Extra on "Setauket" turntable 4/68
Archive: Dave Keller
Greenport Fan Trip 5/17/1970 The
six "previously owned" lightweight passenger cars in the photo
were recent acquisitions from B&O, FEC, NH, PRR and UP, for parlor car
service. Locomotive 224 would have been turned on the turntable for the
westward trip back to Jamaica or Long Island City. Info: Rich Glueck
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Patchogue |
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E7s Atlantic (4-4-2) 1940
on the turntable |
LIRR #110 Built 1916
ex-PRR 8610 Photo: c. 1928+ |
Oyster
Bay
additional
articles/photos |
LIRR G5s
#50 Oyster Bay turntable 10/1954 Photo: Art Huneke |
Aerial View 2011 |
LIRR RS-1 #464 Oyster Bay
turntable c. Dec. 1964+
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RS1 #462 -1950
J. P. Sommer photo, Dave Keller archive |
Photo: Friends of Loco #35, Inc. |
Oyster Bay Turntable - view
south |
1952 Photo: J. P. Sommer Archive:
Dave Keller |
1952 Photo: J. P. Sommer Archive:
Dave Keller |
1952 Photo: J. P. Sommer Archive:
Dave Keller |
Alco #211 04/02/1965 |
Photo 04/02/1965 |
Photo 04/02/1965 |
Oyster
Bay Turntable Alco C420 #211 04-02-1965 Photos: Pat Scopelliti
Oyster
Bay Turntable Alco C420 #208 04/68 Photo: Unknown
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LIRR # 207 c. early 1970's
Info/Collection: Tim Darnell
Oyster
Bay Turntable 07/11/09
Photo: Steve Rothaug
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Oyster
Bay Turntable 01/08/2008
Photo: Dave Morrison
Oyster
Bay Turntable 08/08/09
Photo: Steve Rothaug
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Morris
Park |
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Morris Park Yard c. 1906 postcard
Collection: Dave Morrison |
LIRR #141 G53sd
4-6-0 built 1917 by Brooks Morris Park turntable 01/16/1949
Photo: Bill
Rugen Archive: Art Huneke |
G5s on Morris Park Shops turntable entering roundhouse - Summer 1932
Archive: Dave Keller |
LIRR FM CPA20-5 #2006 c.1955
Collection: Dave Keller
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LIRR #398,
105, 611, 601, 617, 618 view NE 1979 Photo:
Art Huneke |
LIRR #258 c. 1970's
Photo: Steve Hoskins |
LIRR #619 10-28-89
Photo: Albert Castelli
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LIRR #154 Morris Park 10/31/1985
Photo: Art Huneke |
LIRR C420 #222
Tour 06-06-87
Photo: Albert Castelli |
Morris Park Roundhouse
Photo: Steve Hoskins |
Turntable Lead Track
Photo: Steve Hoskins |
Fan Trip c. 1970's |
LIRR #398 c. 1970's
Photo: Steve Hoskins |
LIRR #399 on Transfer Table c. 1970's
Photo: Steve Hoskins |
LIRR #208 1966
Collection: Dave Keller |
Morris Park received a new
center casting today 09-17-06
Photo: Joe Tischner |
Center casting upclose 09-17-06
Photo: Joe Tischner |
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Bethpage
- CRR of LI |
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Historic Site Maker 09-01-06
Photo: Pat Masterson |
Central Railroad of LI
Turntable remains
Collection: Dave Morrision |
Central Railroad of LI
Turntable wall remains
Collection: Dave Morrision |
LI
City - Wheelspur Yard |
Wheelspur Yard, LI City -
Turntable, Coaling Tower
early 1900s view W |
Wheelspur Yard, LI City -
Turntable, Coaling Tower
1921 view W LIRR Valuation
Collection: Dave Morrison |
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Jamaica,
NY |
LIRR 4-4-0 Atlantic #46 on turntable perhaps
Washington St.,
Jamaica, NY c.1880 |
4-4-0 No. 524 being turned on turntable - Washington St. Jamaica- View W
1904 Archive: Dave Keller |
Jamaica turntable - Section House 1911 Archive: Art Huneke |
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What's unique about this structure is that
the access track to the shanty was the turntable lead at one time. The
turntable track and girder support has been removed and the section house
built ATOP the truncated end of the stubbed-out turntable lead, to allow the
handcar to be set on tracks inside the building in the direction of travel
instead of being alongside the tracks at a 90 degree angle and having to be
manhandled out front onto the tracks whenever the car needed to be used.
Info: Dave Keller |