The Long Island Rail Road “Neither rain, nor snow, nor gloom of night kept this train from making its appointed back-and-forth runs throughout the day.”
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1914 LIRR System Map - Suffolk County | ||
Greenport Scoot | ||
Once shuttle service began in the early 1970s between Hicksville and Ronkonkoma using push-pull service, the unofficially-named “Greenport Scoot” ran a shuttle from Ronkonkoma to Greenport Monday to Friday only. It consisted of several cars pulled by one engine and operated in lieu of Jamaica to Greenport train 204 (eastbound) and Greenport to Jamaica train 211 (westbound). |
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Here's a 2-car train of steam cars is laying up westbound at Greenport station behind Alco RS1 #463 awaiting its departure time in August, 1972. This was NOT a shuttle train, but the actual Jamaica to Greenport and return series of trains mentioned above. If you like a "low-speed" ride east of Riverhead, then you'd have loved a ride I took on train #204/#211 out to Greenport and back in the hot, sweltering days of August, 1972. Two "ping-pong" cars pulled behind an ALCO RS1. No air conditioning. Front doors, rear doors and vestibule doors wide-open. Windows open. Anything to suck in a breeze. Wonderful feeling as you sweated into a wet mass, then had dust and dirt blow in on you from the trackside potato fields, giving you and the seats and everything else inside the car a nice coating. Add to that, the
coup de gras: the conductor sitting in the last bench seat of the
rear car . . .. smoking a cigar and spitting on the floor between his legs
every few puffs. Ahh . . . . Main Line
railroading at its best! Dave Keller |
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Train service used to be substantial on these trains as can be evidenced by the photos below: LIRR
G5s #31 Train #204 Medford 04/1940
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LIRR
G5s #49 Train #211 east of Medford 1940
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But, in later years it was simply a 2-car train east in the morning and
west in the afternoon. I mention that the “Scoot” was
“unofficially-named” because it wasn’t indicated as such on
timetables of the time and the OFFICIAL “Greenport Scoot” ran a
shuttle between Greenport and Eastport over the Manorville-Eastport branch
back in the early days of LIRR service. But everybody referred to it as
the “Scoot” or the “Greenport Scoot” just as they did the shuttle
train that ran for years between Patchogue and Babylon on the Montauk
branch. It, too, was always known as “The Scoot.” The “Greenport Scoot” train would lay up in Ronkonkoma yard over the weekend and run east again on Monday morning. As ridership declined, the “Scoot” was relegated to one locomotive and one passenger car. At that time, the train would usually lay up at the end of the Ronkonkoma wye. On occasion, leased locomotives pulled the “Scoot’s” one-car train. LIRR #461 Train #202 "Scoot" eastbound at Riverhead Station 8/27/1973 Archive: Dave Keller |
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The single car Ronkonkoma-Greenport Scoot ran between June 26, 1972 to June 30, 1981 (9 years). BAR #69 came to the LIRR in the Spring of 1974, that summer a former KCS coach, was used as a one car train, before it was two P-54 D's, the change over was in early 1974, then in July 1974 a BAR Engine was assign to this job, the Precisions join in also, in late 1974 or early 1975. In late 1974 or early 1975, the LIRR converted P72 # 2959 to a coach for this job with panels to help keep the car warm. | ||
BAR #69, P72 #2959 "sealed ends" at Greenport 1976 Photo/Archive: Dan Marra, Sr. | ||
RS1 #461 pulls one-car train #211 westbound as it approaches the station at Medford, NY on August 27, 1973. This train, unofficially referred to in more recent years as the "Greenport Scoot," ran as a shuttle between Ronkonkoma and Greenport. The eastbound portion was train #202 and the westbound portion was train #211. Before it ran as a shuttle, train #211 operated westbound from Greenport straight in to Jamaica. The eastbound portion was train #204 which was eliminated when shuttle service began. In this image note the badly weathered platform lamp posts. The one at right nearest the camera has the station name vertically stenciled on it. At the left is old ballast along the former right-of-way of the passing siding which had been removed ten years earlier. (George Povall collection, Dave Keller archive)
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On 11/26/1976, leased PNCX (Precision National Corp) GP9 #980 (EMD, 12/1955, s/n 20833) and "blanked-end" P72 #2959 (Pullman-Standard, 2/1956) are operating #211 (GPT-RON), the weekday Greenport Scoot. Archive: Mike Boland | ||
Located at milepost 91.99 (according to the stationing numbers at least), east of Southold station on the Main Line (and still within the hamlet of Southold) is the bridge over Mill Creek, which leads into Hashamomuck Pond on the far side. On 11/26/1976, leased PNCX (Precision National Corp) GP9 #980 (EMD, 12/1955, s/n 20833) and "blanked-end" P72 2959 (Pullman-Standard, 2/1956) are operating #211 (GPT-RON), the weekday Greenport Scoot. This would be right about 3:00pm. That P72 had its ends blanked in late 1974. Photo/Archive: Jeff Erlitz | ||
Leased Precision National GP10 locomotive #980 is coupled to the one-car
Greenport "Scoot" and is laying up eastbound in front of the
crew shanty in Ronkonkoma yard on Friday, November 26, 1976. This shuttle
would run between Ridership must’ve picked up a bit by the mid-late 1980s, because the “Scoot” then consisted of a push-pull train of MP15ac locomotive on the powered end (east end of train) and a FA cab-control unit on the west end, with two P72 rebuilt MU cars sandwiched between. THIS “Scoot” resembles the K-Line “Greenport Scoot” train set that was marketed some years back. |
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Here the one car “Greenport Scoot” has arrived at the eastern-most end of the Ronkonkoma platform while the westbound push-pull shuttle from Hicksville awaits. Greenport Scoot with LIRR P72 #2959 "sealed end"
coach from Greenport. View W 8/01/1976 |
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The “Greenport Scoot” would lay up at the
eastern-most end of the Ronkonkoma platform while awaiting the eastbound
shuttle from Hicksville.
Sometimes, they would come off the wye, through the yard and approach the
already-arrived eastbound shuttle sitting at the platform. "The Manual Block signal that controls the block from KO to YA is located east of Knickerbocker Avenue, even to this day...the station technically falls within yard limits thus the sometimes rear end connection or the Scoot sitting across from where the (modern day) MU pulls in is allowed to occur as the station in not located in a block." Riders would get off the Hicksville shuttle and walk forward (eastward) the short distance to the rear vestibule to board the “Greenport Scoot.” The “Scoot” would head off east and the shuttle would return to Hicksville. Info: Dave Keller Leased Precision National GP10 locomotive #980 is coupled to the one-car eastbound Greenport "Scoot" (train #202) and is taking on passengers from the eastbound Hicksville shuttle. View W 03/30/1977 (William Madden Photo-Dave Keller Archive) |
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Scoot in Greenport (Last run of the summer
Friday Extra Scoot) 10/09/2009 Photo: Nick Kudreyko
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Weekend Greenport Scoot Train #6293 to Ronkonkoma with DE30AC 401, bilevel 4005, 4030 and DE30AC 412 passing New York & Atlantic RS 70 at MP73 on LD Siding in Riverhead. 2/06/2021 Note: LD Siding named for former LIRR Superintendent of Transportation Larry Dixon. Info/Photo/Archive: William Skeats | ||
Greenport
Scoot with DE30AC 411 in the lead heading through the former location for
the Holtsville Station. The station closed in 1998due to low ridership.
3/26/2023 Photo/Archive: William Skeats |
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Greenport
Scoot Train 6201 at Ronkonkoma, August 1999. MP15AC 164 2 coaches and
MP15AC 157. View E. Photo/Archive: William Skeats |
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Greenport - Bridgehampton Scoot |
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E51sa camelback #4 pulls the "Cannonball" eastbound on the Manorville branch as it approaches the junction with the Montauk branch at Eastport. The view is looking west from atop one of the semaphore signal masts - 1923 James V. Osborne photo, Dave Keller archive. | ||
"PT" cabin and block signals looking east from between the Manorville (left) and Montauk (right) branches towards the junction at Eastport - 1921 (J. V. Osborne photo, Dave Keller archive) | ||
"PT"
cabin and block signals looking east from the Montauk branch towards the
junction at Eastport - 1921. Manorville branch is at the left. (J.
V. Osborne photo, Dave Keller archive) |
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Greenport - Bridgehampton Scoot History
Sag
Harbor Branch The
use of the "Scoot" in round-the-horn service was the reason for
the east leg of the wye being installed at Manorville, allowing trains
(freights included) westbound from Greenport to change direction and head
eastbound towards Eastport and points east, and vice-versa for return
trips.
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Manorville map key Archive: Dave Keller
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Emery map 1934 Manorville - MP65 to Lanes Rd. Archive: Dave Keller
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MP65-66 03/1949
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Manorville Jct. Station view E 9/27/1906 Archive: Dave Keller |
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I believe the Scoot, or a freight, with loco on the west end headed westbound, entered the east leg of the wye, cleared the switch at the wye throat and backed into the station area, where a curved platform was located on the south side of the depot. Passengers boarded/offloaded and the train, with loco still on the head end but now facing eastbound, headed towards Eastport and points east. Zoom view of 9/27/06 photo showing the station sign says "Manor". It wasn't changed to Manorville until 1907. (Weber - Keller) If the east leg of the wye was not in place, the train would have to pass the station AND block signal westbound, make a reverse move, and back onto the spur. With no place to run the engine around the train, it would have to be pushed all the way to Eastport and beyond . . . not a feasible thing to do for visibility/ safety sake. The
Scoot serviced those customers with an around-the-horn type of run between
Greenport and Bridgehampton via Manorville and Eastport, with a connection
at Bridgehampton with the shuttle to Sag Harbor. Also, passengers
could get off from eastbound Greenport trains and await the eastbound
Montauk train which made the Manorville stop, picking up passengers headed
for the South Shore, but I can't see much of that happening because all
they needed to do was to board the Montauk train coming through there. So
I believe, ridership along that branch was affected by the end of
"Scoot" service sometime in the late 1920's-early 1930's.
Not sure when the "Scoot" stopped running. So,
let's back-step a bit with dating: Most Montauk trains at the
time were being routed via the Central branch between B Tower and Babylon.
Finally,
the spur to Eastport was taken out of service on December 27, 1949. I
guess the LIRR just felt they had two branches connecting the Main Line
with the south shore (Montauk/Springfield branch at Hillside and Central
branch between "B" tower and Babylon) and didn't need to
maintain yet another. The war was over (1945) and Camp Upton closed
for good, so circular routing of trains to and from the camp was no longer
necessary and nobody was anticipating a third world war that would require
the camp to be opened for a third time. Again,
this is all conjecture on my part, based upon dates of events and upon
prior LIRR actions.
A veteran engineer told me the RR was making a big issue about how much
scrap $ they would get for the rails they tore up. They were quick to tear
up the line. Ridership ended many years before the branch was shut down. |
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Budd RDCs 1 & 2 heading eastbound past Underwood Fuel with RPO car in tow, approaching River Avenue, Patchogue. 4/06/1963 Photo: William Lichtenstern |
Babylon-Patchogue SCOOT Timetable 5/19/1963 |
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The Saturday afternoon Babylon-Patchogue “Scoot” consisting of BUDD RDC1 #3101 and RDC2 #3121 coupled, is heading eastbound near River Ave. crossing as it approaches Patchogue on April 6, 1963. In tow is RPO (Railway Post Office) car BM62 #7743. As an aside, this towing of non-BUDD cars caused the BUDD Co. to void its warranty on these cars with the LIRR. At the left is Underwood Coal & Coke and in the foreground is the Ringhouse Siding, which extended all the way from west of the Underwood siding eastward to the west side of the Railroad Ave. crossing (after a 1949 track rearrangement) and had a capacity of 35 cars. One month later, demolition of the old Patchogue terminal and engine repair facilities would begin. | ||
BM62 #7743 at the Richmond Hill Mail Loading Dock early 1960's Photo: Henry Maywald Archive: Mike Boland |
BM62 #7743 Patchogue view NE 4/06/1963 Photo: Bill Lichtenstern Archive: Mike Boland "Set out" at Willis Tile for return westbound. |
RDC's with trailer westbound approaching PD Tower, Patchogue 1956 (Huneke-Keller) |
Babylon - Patchogue Scoot Data 5/958 (Emery-SUNY Stony Brook) |
PRR leased gar car #4669 at Morris Park Shops 5/20/1934 Archive: Dave Keller
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MP34 to Babylon |
Babylon Tower Area |
Babylon to Bay Shore |
Bay Shore to Islip |
Islip to Great River |
Great River to Sayville |
Y Block to Patchogue Yard Limit |
Patchogue |
1950 drawings by Jim Boerckel Archive: Dave Morrison
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PATCHOGUE SCOOT SERVICE It's possible that line
(Emery Scoot data above) reads "__, 1957-9, 1967." 1957 could very well have been the start of RDCs in
Patchogue Scoot service. For the 2 years prior to that, they were run all over. I have images shot at Mineola, Hicksville, Ronkonkoma, Riverhead, Greenport, Oyster Bay, Southampton and Patchogue, but not in Scoot service. Also fan trips in 1956 and early 1947. That was about the year I rode in the cab of an RDC to Babylon. |
BUDD RDC Wreck - Holtsville 1967 |
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The "Nappanee" was acquired by the LIRR from the B&O in October, 1968, per Jack Deasy's LIRR Parlor Car site. The "Nappanee" was renamed "Amagansett."
Research: Dave Keller |
BUDD RDC2 #312 Jersey City, NJ 7/08/1968 Archive: Dave Keller |
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RDC1-2 Babylon 1955 W. J. Edwards photo, Dave Keller archive |
RDC at PD Baggage House 4/06/1963 Archive: Dave Keller |
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RDC Scoot picking-up RPO #65 at Babylon Winter View W 1963 Photo/Archive: Brad Phillips |
RPO #7751 Babylon temporary station - Scoot pickup 9/28/1963 (Faxon-Keller) |
Ticket Babylon - Patchogue Archive: Brad Phillips Note 1 |
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May 25, 1971 LIRR places first push-pull train in service on diesel lines; equipment consists of 44 former MP72 MU cars converted to T72 trailers with 6 converted Alco FA or EMD F units as control cabs on rear ends; cab units are unpowered and merely provide control cabs and head-end generators for lighting and heat. (PRR Keystone, Trains, MTA) The first run of a Push-Pull Train on the Montauk Branch in Passenger Service was on May 27th, 1971 with FA #601, 8 coaches and a C420 (L-2) on Train #66. The first train of a push-pull consist was comprised of ONLY ex-T72 cars, since they were easier to modify and did not need their motors to be removed as they didn't have any. RS3's started working the Push-Pull trains in the Summer of 1971 as well as the C420 L-1's. Early on in the 1971 transition, the FA (PC-6) units were on the EAST end of the train and the RS3s on the WEST end of the train, long-nose forward. On the Main line, at Ronkonkoma, this EAST end arrangement was also utilized. At this time the FA's was not used as a Cab Control Car, therefore the engines would run around the train. After operating in this manner for a short period of time, in late June 1971, the FA units were moved to the west end of the trains for servicing reasons, and they remained there until withdrawn from service and removed from the property. Delivered GP38-2 (1976-77) did not have head end power to supply passenger consists and only some MP15AC (3/1977) engines were equipped. Utilizing FA control cabs provided both class of engines with this requirement. FA’s had their traction motors removed and the ALCO 244 prime mover was used as Head End Power (HEP) for supply to the P72’s. The prime mover on the FA’s were kept at notch 4. The last units that had their stems generators used were the C420’s. FA's supplied 650v DC HEP for PT-72 and PT-75 cars to simulate 3rd rail for converted MU's with motor alternators. Steam heat on the P72's (2900's) was gone by early 1979, converted cars temporarily stenciled "electric heat" in black lettering next to the doors. FA unit conversions provided the engine crew the front-end protection that they wanted along with the 650V DC power from the converted prime mover hence their nicknames "Power Packs". These engines were rebuilt by General Electric in North Bergen NJ to provide constant 650V hotel power and cab controls only, thus they had no traction motors. Mike Boland The Zip
Cars were converted to Push-Pull Service early to mid-1972. |
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LIRR Instruction Booklet for Push-Pull Trains August 1971 |
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MTA/LIRR PUSH PULL TRAINS 8/1971 Archive: Mike Boland |
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PUSH-PULL TRAIN OPERATION SPECIAL CAUTIONS The original push-pull concept was a success and would be used for around 30 years in LIRR service from 1971 to 2000. More former MU cars and other locomotives would be later converted over time for train service. Material courtesy of Mike McEnaney |
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RS3 #1554 Scoot Islip 1969 Archive: Dave Keller |
RDC1-2 RPO Car at River Ave, Patchogue 4/06/1963 Archive: Dave Keller |
RS1 462 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound near Great River 1968 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1553 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot Westbound near Great River -1968 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1553 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot Crossing Creek WB west of Oakdale-1968 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1552 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound west of Oakdale-1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1552 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot west leaving Great River-1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3-1554 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound at Montauk Hwy 1969 Overpass-W of Oakdale (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1554 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound past signals east of Great River 1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1555 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound approaching Great River 1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3-1556 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot broken down eastbound at Great River-1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 1556 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot broken down Eastbound at Great River 1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
RS3 Babylon-Patchogue Scoot westbound through field east of Great River 1969 (J. P. Krzenski-Dave Keller) |
Winter 1970 at PD Tower with LIRR RS-3 #1559 Westbound Archive: Dave Keller |
Scoot LIRR #620 Train #57 leaves the School House Track at PD Interlocking. The "Scoot" will pick up its passengers in Patchogue station, and proceed west to Babylon. 6/1989 Photo/Archive: Jay Bendersky |
PD LIRR #1553 Hack view E 1972 Dave Keller photo and archive |
An updated view of the Babylon-Patchogue Scoot is shown here with FA2 control cab #603 on the west end of westbound train #63 at the station in Patchogue, NY – 8/17/76. GP38-2 #257 is on the east and powered end preparing to push the train to Babylon. (George E. Votava photo - Dave Keller archive) |
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GP38-2 #274 2/11/1986 Photo: Tom Beckett |
Babylon-Patchogue Scoot #74, led by DE30AC 419 splits the signals right on the border of the Villages of West Islip and West Bay Shore. On the right is Babylon’s “hold-out” home signal #60. Other than the Oyster Bay Branch, the segment from Babylon to Y, east of Sayville, is a “251” holdout. The last of the wayside automatic block signals. 5/19/2023 Info/Photo/Archive: Jeff Erlitz
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Babylon to Patchogue Official Training maps 1/1978 |
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Babylon to Patchogue Interlocking maps c.1988 |
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"Scoots" and Shuttles | ||
All photos and captions below
are from the Dave Keller Archive unless noted otherwise |
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J. G. Brill gas car (“doodlebug”) #1134 at the designated Sag Harbor platform at the station – Bridgehampton, NY – 1927. These gas cars were very convenient to short-line or shuttle operations in that one car could be used to carry both passengers and mail/express/baggage, with a crew of 2: conductor and engineer, and they ran on what was then inexpensive gasoline. It eliminated the need for a steam locomotive, tender loaded with coal, combine car and a full crew of engineer, fireman, conductor and trainman/brakeman. They were the forerunner of the BUDD Rail Diesel Car |
A later view of J. G. Brill gas car (“doodlebug”) #1134 at the designated Sag Harbor platform at the station – Bridgehampton, NY – 8/14/38. View looking southeast. Depot at right. This designated platform was accessed by a track branching off the Sag Harbor branch track north of the Montauk branch Main, so the shuttle never had to enter the Main and never ran the risk of a collision or fouling the Main. |
The end is near. J. G. Brill gas car #1134 and crew with supervisor at Sag Harbor, NY – View looking northwest from in front of the depot - 4/1939. The branch was abandoned the following month, the gas car laid up for a short period of time at the Richmond Hill Storage Yard, was sold and left the property. (F. W. Weber photo) |
PRR-leased gas car #4744 is seen laying up at the wye at Wading River, NY in January, 1932. The shuttle ran between that station and Port Jefferson, where a special lay-up track was built on the east side of the depot building. This branch extension between Port Jefferson and Wading River was abandoned in 1938. (George G. Ayling photo) |
PRR-leased gas car #4744 is laying up at the designated Sag Harbor platform at Bridgehampton, NY. View is looking east from the rear of a moving westbound train. Bridgehampton depot is at the right – 1936. These gas cars were used wherever the LIRR needed them in shuttle service. One even ran on the Patchogue – Babylon “Scoot” for a period of time. (Wm. Moneypenny photo) |
When through-train passenger service was ended between Valley Stream on the LIRR’s Montauk branch, through West Hempstead and on northwards to Country Life Press in Garden City and continuing north to Mineola on the LIRR’s Main Line in the 1930s, West Hempstead became the end of the line for that branch. The depot building was moved south of Hempstead Avenue to prevent disruption of traffic at train time and service to West Hempstead was in the form of a 2 or 3-MU car shuttle operating between Valley Stream and West Hempstead. This view looking northeast shows the recently-modernized 2-car MU shuttle at the station platform with the relocated depot at the left c. 1955. |
In the early 1960's, at Babylon Station, the "Scoot" to Patchogue has coupled to BM62B #7743 for its run east after it was set out from the MU train that delivered it. Photo: Malcolm Young Archive: Mike Boland |
Babylon-Patchogue Scoot with RPO #7743 View E 1960's Photo: Malcolm Young Archive: Mike Boland
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ALCO FA1 control cab #616 is seen on push-pull train #255 in Ronkonkoma-Hicksville shuttle service at Bethpage, NY on 8/16/1974 C420 #219 is on the powered end. (George E. Votava photo- Dave Keller archive) |
A similar shuttle service was placed into service on the Port Jefferson branch with the arrival of the control cab units and the institution of push-pull trains. Electrification was completed to Huntington in 1970. Push-pull shuttle service ran between Port Jefferson and Huntington throughout the day, carrying riders between electrified territory and non-electrified territory. Here we see ALCO FA2 control cab #603, on push-pull train #604 eastbound at Huntington with C420 #227 on the powered end. (George E. Votava photo- Dave Keller archive) |
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ALCO FA2 control cab #601 is on the west end of push-pull weekend train #4255, the Ronkonkoma to Hicksville shuttle, shown here at Bethpage, NY – 7/15/1972. ALCO C420 #207 is on the powered end pushing the train. This shuttle operated with the beginning of push-pull trains put into service with the arrival of the FA1 and FA2 control cabs. With the control cab on one end and the powered unit on the other, the train could be pushed in one direction and pulled in the other, without wasting the time it took in running the locomotive around the train and recoupling it in the opposite direction. This shuttle ran to meet Main Line-bound riders arriving on electric trains bound for Huntington on the Port Jefferson branch and changing for the shuttle at Hicksville or taking westbound riders from Ronkonkoma and other Main Line stations to Hicksville to connect with the electric train there which originated at Huntington. The diesel train would arrive on the track across from the electric trains. This shuttle service ended with the electrification of the Main Line to Ronkonkoma and the operation of through electric service. (George E. Votava photo- Dave Keller archive) |
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Note 1: As for tickets from the "Scoot",
that will be difficult to determine: |